[Maurits]

GIMP# 0.9 will be released pretty soon, but I would like to have an impression of how people percieve this project before and after the release.

For some reason the GIMP# website didn't appear in my footer in this post. So here it is:

Website: http://sourceforge.n...cts/gimp-sharp/
Blog: http://maurits.wordpress.com/

Have fun

[Ali Imran]

Hey Maurits

Good news. Thanks for sharing...
You know, am a bit confused abotu using it. Does it include a GUI for building plugin too ?

regards

[Maurits]

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You know, am a bit confused abotu using it. Does it include a GUI for building plugin too ?

No, there is no such GUI. You still have to write your own programs, but doing so using GIMP# and C# is a lot easier compared to writing it in C like most GIMP plug-ins. And the plug-ins are definitely a lot faster than the ones written in Python, Ruby, Perl, Scheme, etc. etc.

[Maurits]

I'm slightly suprised that at this moment of writing the topic has 100 hits, but only 2 votes... What's keeping people from voting? Are the opions unclear? Did I forget options?

[PhotoComix]

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'm slightly suprised that at this moment of writing the topic has 100 hits, but only 2 votes... What's keeping people from voting?

Well maybe nobody know how to use it ,becouse still there is not any kind of manual or instrutions..
We can try the included plugins.... but for the main use, to create new ones, maybe only people allready experienced in programming in C have some idea about how to use it....and maybe they are allready used to do it with other tools..

I know that you are available to answer to question but what is missed are not much answers to specific questions but a very basic how to...At least some links to some existing resource ( as: to start with GIMP# first have a look to "Basic C# scripting"here http://....... )

Without any kind of user's manual we can't (..at least i can't) use it properly, so we can't answer...(well...i'm one of the 2 that answered,becouse i tried some plugins...still i have no idea if and how could be useful to write plugins, if they will really quicker than the script fu ...and so on)

Just a question...suppose i want spent time to understund how write a plugin with GIMP# , to use it once compiled iit's necessary to have GIMP# installed, or any gimp user could use my plugin done with GIMP# ???

[Maurits]

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Well maybe nobody know how to use it ,becouse still there is not any kind of manual or instrutions..
We can try the included plugin but for the main use, to create new ones, maybe only people allready experienced in programming have a idea about how to use it....and maybe they are allready used to do it with other tools..

You are very right. There should be at least some tutorial. We have been very busy writing code and just haven't had enough time to write some documentation. For some plug-ins this isn't too much of a problem. For example the Picture Package and SliceTool plug-in are modelled after their Photoshop and PaintShopPro counterparts and any tutorial for those programs will do. Others will definitely need some explanation.

The main use by the way is not to create new ones, because only a small percentage of the users will be able do that. We try to include as many useful plug-ins (like the above mentioned) as possible, mainly to make it easier for people to switch from PS or PSP to GIMP. Another example of this effort is the Photoshop actions plug-in.

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Without any kind of user's manual we can't (..at least i can't) use it properly, so we can't answer...(well...i'm one of the 2 that answered,becouse i try some plugins...still i have no idea if and how could be useful to write plugins, if they will really quicker than the script fu ...and so on)

The GIMP# plug-ins will be (much) faster than script-fu. Writing a GIMP# plug-in is of course a different matter. It's not difficult if you have some programming experience, but of course now I'm talking from a developer's point of view.

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Just a question...suppose i want spent time to write a plugin with GIMP# , to use it once compiled it's necessary to have GIMP# installed, or any gimp user could use it ???

Yes, you would need GIMP# and .NET (on win32) or Mono (on Linux). The executables are not self contained, but need the dynamic libraries.

[PhotoComix]

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For example the Picture Package and SliceTool plug-in are modelled after their Photoshop and PaintShopPro counterparts and any tutorial for those programs will do.

OK ...so start a help as: Picture Package use,see The Picture Package Tutorial on http://www.photoshoptutorial.*** , must be not very time wasting task...please ,note, i don't want be sarcastic

but i just try to answer to your question, and ...if your target are not experienced C developers but average Gimp users a Users Manual is strictly necessary.

..if you see in the forum you will find many people asking how to save as .jpg how to use gamma ,how to make transparent solid colour background...and mostly how to use the default gimp tools and plugins...to get detailed answers 90% of the times it is only needed to call with F1 the contestual help...still they seems lost if they don't get answers in this and other forum..

You could image what will happen if they try to use plugins that have no any kind of help files,or reference or anything ??

And nobody could answer :please,press F1 and read the Help...or follow this link for that users manual page...

[saulgoode]

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What's keeping people from voting? Are the opions unclear? Did I forget options?

I would vote for an option such as "I applaud your efforts and am interested in your activities but personally this is not worth pursuing".

I am pretty happy with Scheme for scripting and, if some improvements are added, it should suffice for most of the trivial enhancements to the GIMP. I am not a great fan of C# (or of OO in general, for that matter) and, for less-than-trivial plug-in authoring, am quite happy to program in C itself.

This is merely personal preference and no offense is intended (it is similar to the way I feel about other projects such as Blender, I am interested enough to follow its progress but not enthused enough to use it or to participate in its development).

The "language agnosticism" of the GIMP (whereby almost any programming language can be used to produce plug-ins) is truly one of its greatest strengths. I suspect that your greatest support will come more from the C# (and Mono) community which will be provided with a great outlet (the GIMP) for writing powerful programs in their language of choice; rather than from the GIMP community which is 99% unaware and uncaring (and rightly so) of the implementation specifics of the programming. That being said, I would encourage that the interface presented by all GIMP# plug-ins follow the guidelines set forth by the GIMP developers, and not attempt to follow whatever Windows.Forms or .NET user interface standards may be available. The ideal towards which the GIMP project is currently heading is to hide a plug-in's implementation language from the user and present a consistent interface to the user.

[Maurits]

saulgoode, fotocomics, thanks for your feedback. It has become very clear what is missing and we really plan to put some effort in writing a tutorial, programmers documentation, etc. So even if only 2 people have voted yet, this poll was succesful :)

One of the sources of this unclearity is also that we target 2 different groups: the development communitity for whom we have created the possibility to program plug-ins in C# and the end-user communtity for whom we provide a few (hopefully) useful plug-ins. This distinction is probably not always clear to anyone.

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I would encourage that the interface presented by all GIMP# plug-ins follow the guidelines set forth by the GIMP developers, and not attempt to follow whatever Windows.Forms or .NET user interface standards may be available.

GIMP# plug-ins strictly follow the GIMP (which uses GNOME Human Interface Guidelines) guidelines. All GIMP# plug-ins are using GTK, so from the outside you won't see any difference between a plug-in written in C or C#.

Once again, thanks for your feedback. I appreciate.

[PhotoComix]

A last point

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QUOTE:
Just a question...suppose i want spent time to write a plugin with GIMP# , to use it once compiled it's necessary to have GIMP# installed, or any gimp user could use it ???


Yes, you would need GIMP# and .NET (on win32) or Mono (on Linux). The executables are not self contained, but need the dynamic libraries.
Website: http://sourceforge.n...cts/gimp-sharp/

I find this a limitation. I hate make paragon with PS but in this case i will do.
If i wrote a PS plugin with one of the usual tools (as Adobe SDK,Filter Formula,FilterMeister and so on...) i have a selfstanding plugin, it not require to be used to have FilterFormula or FilterMeinster installed (note both come as Gimp#
loaded with some sample plugins).
Usually the new plugin doesn't even need Photoshop to be used, they could work even with Gimp and most of PS compatible SW.(most of PS plugin writers avoid to use the last Adobe SDK not for is price but just because the output will be no compatible with other software but only with PS )

I can understund that writing a plugin could requires extra librery and resources, but , once compiled, will be nice if they will be selfstanding or at least if they require no such huge background as NET or Momo (Glua plugin ad example require
a Glua interface, but that is not a such heavy download...

On windows very few people use Phyton plugin for similar reason (they require Phyton to work,that's no problem in Linux enviroment,...but is a huge impediment for most of Windows users

EDIT
GIMP# ,from your word, could offer a very intresting features as a good real time preview sometimes missed in other plugin...still the requirement of both GIMP and NET (or momo )not only to create but also for use them seem to me a heavy ballast

[Maurits]

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I can understund that writing a plugin could requires extra librery and resources, but , once compiled, will be nice if they will be selfstanding or at least if they require no such huge background as NET or Momo

I have given this some more thought (hey, we listen to or users :h:) and did some investigations. It seems that Mono (and probably .NET as well) supports so called bundles (http://www.mono-proj...Runtime#Bundles) which allows you to merge the libraries and the Mono runtime in one executable image.

Now there are three options:

1) we can bundle * everything * in one executable. That would mean that every plug-in will have the libraries (gtk#, gimp#, glib#, etc.) as well as the runtime (either Mono or .NET) included.

2) assume that .NET (win32) or Mono (Linux) is already installed. More and more Microsoft applications require a working .NET and it's probably already installed with newer Windows versions. In that case it would be sufficient to just bundle the needed libraries.

3) don't bundle anything. This is the current situation. For GIMP# on win32 this isn't a problem, because it will install all the required libraries for you. However if you want to create a new standalone plug-in which you want to distribute without GIMP# this clearly isn't an option.

For GIMP# we will probably continue with option 3. What we will do however is provide documentation to developers who want to go with either option 1 or 2 so that they can create standalone plug-ins that everyone can use without having to install GIMP#.

[PhotoComix]

That is fine...and your right about more and more win application requiring NET....

i'm waiting for the new release...and i 'm very very curios about the new "actions" plugin..

[vnt87]

it's a great addition to the GIMP, I'm sure this will grow to become an essential plugin for GIMP.