Don't know what to do about this, so figured I'd post it here and if it was a NO NO, someone here would know what to do about it and who to report it to. I'm a total novice to opensource, but to my understanding you can't profit from opensource software or any add ons to it in any way whatsoever, right? If I'm wrong, please forgive me as a noob...but just had to mention it in case I'm right. Hate to think of people out there paying for what you can download free in 100 different places. That's the sorta thing that scares novices away from opensourse, imo.

Anyway, don't remember if we can post links here, but guy selling gimpshop is seller "desertlinks" on Ebay. Whole concept is rather clever, actually..."SAVE $650!!!"...meanwhile, its $650 savings off of comparable photoshop price. I was in sales for many moons...pretty creative ad concept.

Again, please forgive me if this is a totally allowable action...don't wanna besmirch someone following the rules, but my best friend is a programmer and we've had long talks about opensource concepts and how one can't profit in any way, so felt like I needed to report this to someone...I'd ask her but she just had surgery.

Hope someone here can take proper action from here if selling gimpshop is not ok.

Thanks for time!!!

Selling GIMP is permitted, as long as you offer to provide the source code to anyone who asks (you can charge a reasonable fee for the source code). You might wish to read Selling Free Software Is OK for a in-depth explanation.

Nonetheless, I would discourage anyone from paying for the GIMP without first researching what they are getting and whether the same thing can be had for free (which it usually can).

As side note is Gimpshop to not be Okay since is obsolete and very buggy.

About selling as Saulgoode explain that is permitted, obviously most offer in change some additional services (at least shipping home the installer in a CD that may be useful for dial up users )

"but my best friend is a programmer and we've had long talks about opensource concepts and how one can't profit in any way"

Nope. You can charge whatever price you want. The only limitation is what the buyer will accept. As Saulgoode mentiones, selling GPLed software is perfectly legal, providing you provide a way to get the source code, just the same as you would be required to if providing it for free. Other common open source licenses are similarly permissive (BSD, many versions of Creative Commons, Python License)

If you look at his other items, that's all he does -- sell CDs of opensource software advertised as clones of some commercial software.
Someone (possibly him) used to be trying to sell links to OSS on eBay, which failed AFAIK.
I think his behaviour is largely fair enough .. Personally I have some trouble installing OSS on windows, for example GIMP, so there is real value for me in having all the necessary files on a CD along with a script to install them in the right order. For Windows users whom he targets, there is more value since they are largely clueless to development matters and have little basis to guess correct order of installation.
(for instance, if you want gimp-python support, figuring out the installation order needed was a process of trial and error, which I failed to complete several times ('WTF? I don't need this so badly that I'll continue slamming my head against the wall!') until I got some instruction.

Strangely enough, I think he is probably doing something good for OSS, considering how much trade he seems to do. Aside from what I mentioned above, it also caters to the rather large segment of people who believe that nothing free is good, and you pay for strictly what you get.
Good for GIMP? Not so much; GIMPShop is relatively outdated and really a heinous hack; GIMP honestly representing itself would be better. GIMPShop does provide a path for people to later migrate to GIMP

yes i have a good indication get this http://photocomix-resources.deviantart.com/art/Gimp-Python-support-easier-74889017

With that is complex as click on a installer only you have to repeat 5 times and restart the system twice
( Many install failed only because one of that installers don't prompt to restart the system as should )
But this is a bit OT here so just grab the pack there the very simple instruction are included

Question is since its GimpShop, does the seller have to include the source code for it or just for Gimp?
Yeah Ive seen these tricks before, thing is the seller would have to be really lucky to find anyone to buy it.
Think about it, anybody savvy enough to use Ebay, and Photoshop would undoubtedly have the wits to Google GimpShop, or even The Gimp.
Once thats done then Pandora's box is wide open.
Geez they both have free, and opensource plastered all over em, what nit wit would buy it for a high price then?

Still this kind of thing does have its place, not every one has the ability to download the 9 to 20 megs of these two flavors, let alone the source code, and every thing needed to compile it, but I do believe this should only be done while stating it as a service, and not the actual programs.
The GNU could defiantly use some rewriting as far as this goes.

Personally I wouldn't worry about it, theres no way any one could get rich off of this, and any one silly enough to actually buy it, will have a well deserved lesson.
Luckily Ebay, Craigslist, etc. all are public and every one has the ability to reply to them, so by all means tell em what you think.

@PhotoComix:
I already had successfully installed Gimp-Python
Thanks anyway.

@newt:

"Question is since its GimpShop, does the seller have to include the source code for it or just for Gimp?"
GIMPShop. GPL requires that any modifications are also released under GPL, hence GIMPShop is under GPL.

"Think about it, anybody savvy enough to use Ebay, and Photoshop would undoubtedly have the wits to Google GimpShop, or even The Gimp. "
..sometimes. People don't always have the time.. or the presence of mind to do the appropriate thing.
Look up this guy's details -- he is a 'PowerSeller', meaning that he's been trading for a long time, he's done a lot of trade (ie. many items), he has a very positive rating (99.4% positive, out of 2200+ transactions),

"Geez they both have free, and opensource plastered all over em, what nit wit would buy it for a high price then? "
His price ($5) is not high. It's only more than the cost of burning -- I'd say it's about the cost of cd + cost of burning plus the cost of his time (burn, verify integrity of CD, (print/burn label?), package. buy new packs of CDs occasionally.)
I figure that he chose $5 so that if a person googles GIMPShop or one of the other products he is selling CDs of, they'll agree that it's a fair price for the additional convenience.
I certainly agree it's a fair price (be aware also that people, even if they have the bandwidth, may not have the time to track down the various bits to install them. AFAICS he could reasonably charge more, since that saved time is value added.)

"The GNU could defiantly use some rewriting as far as this goes. "
What do you mean? GNU L/GPL requires that the correct name be used (eg. if you modify it, you must name it in a way that shows that.. 'GIMP 2.3 + photoshop-imitation patches' or 'GIMPShop'; if you don't, you must use the original name 'GIMP'). What further legal restrictions do you want to put on it?
The purpose of the GPL is strictly to preserve freedoms, not to restrict them. GPL is the licensing equivalent of 'Your rights end where the other fellow's nose begins'. It restricts your freedom only as far as necessary to provide the same freedoms you have to all others. Does your proposed change fit with this philosophy?

well 5 $ seems very fair price is gimpshop to be buggy but that is a different matter

@0ion9
Im saying the license should say that if your selling the contents as a service, then that service should be obviously stated.
Theres only two ways to sell it, as a collection, this includes any individual changes someone could charge for, or for the service of placing the files on disk, the disk itself, packing and shipping yada yada.
Yes a thin line, as both could be called services, but with one major difference, both can be sent via disk, one cant be sent via wire.
As I recall Ebay frowns on things sent over the internet.
Now heres the kicker, suppose Ebay allowed trades of money for access to info stored on the net, all some scrupulous seller would have to do is give the buyer the link to gimp.org.

Dear Sucker

Here is the program you purchased [url]gimp.org[/url]

Ps have fun

To all who replied...thanks so much for your time...I've certainly learned a TON!!!

And btw, newt, I'm cracking up over your link selling idea. What a devious mind you have! lol

PhotoComix...I am literally right now downloading goodies of yours at DA. Just took two seconds to check in here, and you were one of the respondents. Bee-zare.

As for all the responses, as I mentioned before, I'm a total Gimp novice. This is my first foray into Opensource, period, though i've used some basic plug and play type freeware. I am NOT a clever computer person, but can learn and use programs well if they're relatively straight forward. I would NEVER have been able to correctly install gimp on my own with all different links and everything. Thank God for Sapphire..my wonderful buddy who takes care of all my computer stuff I can't handle. From that perspective, $5 seems incredibly reasonable if you're literally getting a disk as easy to install as any purchased software with a simple .exe installer dealie.

Honestly, it never occurred to me that he was selling a snazzy compilation to install. I kinda figured he was selling it in exactly the same format as you'd grab it on the net. So, just so I'm getting this correctly...It would be ok for someone to sell Script-fus, or gimp brushes, or shapes, or whatnot? I must have totally misunderstood conversation I had with my goddess of programming.

So sorry to have bothered all of you...just wanted to make sure someone wasn't doing something that's a major nono for the goodness of Gimp! lol

And btw...thank goodness for this community. I'm desperately trying to create a career for myself in graphic design since health probs forced me to leave my old career. I would be totally stumped if I didn't have ability to ask questions and get answers here.

Thanks all!

"It would be ok for someone to sell Script-fus, or gimp brushes, or shapes"
Depending on the license. The GPL only applies to the program source and derivative works.. things created using the program source code are derivative works, things created using the program itself are not (eg. your pictures :)

All the script-fus packaged with GIMP are released under the GPL, so they can be sold.
GPL explicitly permits sale.
Other resources such as brushes, patterns, gradients, paths.. contain no software source code and hence cannot be licensed under GPL. AFAIK no license is specified for them (or maybe they are public domain)

If you create your own brushes, gradients, patterns, script-fu, python-fu, or other resources, choice of license is completely up to you.
Anyone who wants a GPL-like license for non-program things like brushes etc, one of the Creative Commons licenses is probably suitable. http://creativecommons.org/

(I think licensing under CC is a pretty smart thing to do for most brushes, gradients, and patterns -- the GIMP community could benefit a lot from better resources in this area.)


For Photoshop, people like
http://www.cybia.co.uk/brushes.htm

are selling brush packs; There is nothing stopping anyone from selling GIMP brush packs, gradient packs, ....
(btw, their demo brush pack seems to be good :) http://www.gimptalk.com/forum/topic/110 ... -24-1.html is a conversion of their demo brushes to GIMP format.)

Oion9, Thanks so much for the resources! The clarification is helpful, also. I'm totally addicted to abr brushes, and have thousands of sets from my old photoshop days...thank goodness 2.4 uses abr beautifully, or I'd be batch converting to gimp brushes like a mad frothing beast! lol

But I the links will be fantastic for a friend whose using 2.2 without abr functionality, and who is always dying for good gimp brushes. I've told her that there's great conversion software, but she hasn't gotten around to it yet. So she'll be thrilled to pieces with your gimp brush links. I've got some cybia stuff, but willl check again to see if I missed anything great.

By the way...does anyone know the Max effective content size of Gimp 2.4 brush file before it gets wonky? I'm used to ability to dump hundreds of brushes in photoshop, tried that with gimp and got b%#ch-slapped! lol Went uberslow, got very temperamental. So took most of them out, but really do need to stick some more brushes in gimp for easiest access. So if anyone knows a number of MB that gimp accepts in brush presets before getting all booga booga, I would be grateful. Looked all over manual to no avail, and can't think how on earth to phrase that as a google search.

I'm just amazed and astounded (and quite impressed with human kind, actually) that with it being legal to sell gimp compatible stuff...brushes, scripts, filters, etc, that I havent' found a single person...other than the guy that inspired this post....SELLING anything to do with gimp! Its all been offered generously as free content, which is pretty fantastic. I've spent upwards of 40hours cumulative hunting gimp goodies, and have yet to find anyone trying to profit, so I'm quite impressed.

Thanks again!

@orachel

I don't know if there is a size limit to brushes, I have a feeling the stability of GIMP under stress would more depend on your hardware, but it's just a guess. Handling large brush sets at least (if maybe not large individual brushes) is more convenient if you use the third-party brush manager which is now available also for Windows. It also supports zipped brush sets, for example.
.
Griatch

Re: Brush size limits:

For comparison:
Photoshop before CS2: Limited to 1000*1000px brushes
Photoshop CS2 and later: Limited to 2500*2500px brushes
GIMP: No observable limits.
* gbr.txt says that width and height are 32bit unsigned integers. This means that maximum dimensions == 4294967295 * 4294967295 pixels.
naturally your machine is liable to choke long before that (since such a brush would occupy 17,179,869,176 gigabytes of memory and disk space)
* I've tested this somewhat by creating a 3200x240 brush -- it works fine, and even draws somewhat responsively, on this 2.4ghz/1gb ram machine. Best responsiveness is with simple brushes.
* gih (gimp image pipe) format is a simple header prepended to a lot of GBR files. It is text based, and it's reasonable to assume that all fields are read as 32bit signed integers, allowing a value of up to 2147483647 for cellheight and cellwidth. It's other properties are unremarkable. Limitations:
** dimensions is currently limited to 4.
** ranks is currently limited to 100 per rank, which totals to 100*100*100*100 == 100 million cells;
However, total number of cells is limited to 1000.


Answering the original question, there is no particular memory limit, except your machine. GIMP could improve in this area by refining the caching system, so that full brush data is discarded after loading to generate the thumbnail, except for the most recently used N brushes.